***Update 1 2015-05-27 – 09:11: CEST***
This is an old topic, yes i know. But last night i (we) were contacted by a anonymous source that had quite a lot to say about David Pakman, Vox Day and #GamerGate. And some of the stuff which he/she listed in his/her mail, was all new information to me. So i just thought that it might be new information to some of you guys/girls as well.
So i asked for his/her permission to publish the mail on our site. And here´s the full version of that mail:
“Why do people think Pakman has pulled a bait and switch? Specific examples listed.
“So what do you think? Did David Pakman pull a bait and switch with #GamerGate? And was his videos “fair” in terms of facts, questions and presentation of both sides of the story?” Pakman’s interview with Vox Day was thumbnailed with a pic of the gamergate logo and Vivian James (despite the fact Vox Day is more directly involved with Sad Puppies movement than Gamergate).
Pakman’s interview was focused on Vox’s perspective on homosexuals than anything about Gamergate. Doing this helped to reinforce that Vox = GG and Vox views on gays are shared by GG. Very slick way to push that message without explicitly saying it aloud. Someone could click on that vid thinking they are going to learn about GG and instead spend most of it listening to a man who has very little to do with GG talk about “teh gays”. Bait and switch.
In the interview with CH Sommers in the thumbnail preview video he used a Rosie the Riveter image instead of the Gamergate image (even though CHS is much more intimately involved with pro-GG than Vox ever was). Doing this was a clever calculation because then people will click on the GG image thumbnail to get the “homophobic” person and click on Rosie the Riveter to get someone who calls herself a feminist and is pro-GG.
This helps to really confused people new to the controversy to get the idea that there no women and women right’s activists in GG while pushing that GG is full of homophobic bigots (which better suits the narrative he needs to sell for get respect from the establishment media. Pakman also edited the interview with CHS to make it appear that CHS was criticizing Karen Strauhman (sp) a female MRA in order to try to provoke infighting between these two pro-GG women. CHS even called him out on this on her twitter account after she saw his uploaded video of her interview.
I would prefer to remain anonymous.” – Anonymous source
So what are you thoughts on this people? Do you agree?
Last night i took the time to watch both of David Pakman show´s new videos on #GamerGate. Because when i heard the rants about “Pakman pulled a bait and switch with #GamerGate”, i just had to check it out. Truth be told though, i can´t say that i would like to be in the shoes of Pakman. As it´s a really hard job being neutral and making both sides of the story happy at the sametime.
Anyhow, both of Pakman´s videos were like night and day in difference when it comes to the actual content and it´s guests. As the first video (#GamerGate: Mercedes Carrera & Liana Kerzner on Anita Sarkeesian: Influential or Not?) had Mercedes Carrera (porn star, engineer and GamerGate supporter ) and Liana Kerzner (writer for The Escapist, sex-positive feminist and a Canadian media personality) as guests.
So i was not all that surprised to find out that the video got labeled as a “More of a GG fluff piece than an interview.” by the anti-GamerGate side. Fair enough i suppose, as there were no “famous” guest from the anti-GamerGate side in that video (like Arthur Chu or Zoé Quinn for example). But even so, Carrera and miss Kerzner made quite a few good points.
Such as the facts that #GamerGate is not a club, it´s a hashtag and a leaderless hashtag movement. Or that just about anyone is a part of the GG moment (Christians, porn stars, comic geeks, movie geeks and so on). Both Kerzner and Carrera had some good points about Anita Sarkeesian as well.
Like when Carrera pointed out that Sarkeesian has had an influence on the industry. But it´s a difference between having a positive and a negative influence on the industry (that´s of course an interpretive kind of question, depending on which side your on). But in overall, it was a good and informative video i have to say.
But the real head attraction would be the Chris Kluwe (ex NFL football player for the Minnesota Vikings, Gamer and a anti GamerGates spokesperson) interview video. Why? Because of a number of reasons. For starter, Kluwe has jumped in and out of “GamerGate Vs Anti GamerGate” ring several times since the conflict took off last summer.
So i was quite surprised to see him in an interview with David Pakman. As it seems like he has avoided the show in the past. And here´s the thing, for months and months i´ve been hearing a lot of bad things about Kluwe. But i actually never had a chance to build up my own picture of him.
However, David Pakman gave me that chance when he did his interview with Kluwe. And i´m going to be very honest with you guys. Kluwe is not “all” that stupid, that´s for sure (even though that he has tweeted out some doubtful tweets in the past). You may not agree with him, but his far from stupid. As Kluwe made some valid points on the “Sports and Esports” subject, and the current state of things in the video game industry for example (he even admitted that there´s problems with ethics in video game journalism).
It took quite a while before the interview was really about Chris Kluwe though. Because Pakman talked with Kluwe about the past #GamerGate events on his show, for about 20 minutes or so. So there was just about 9 minutes of “actual”direct Kluwe Q & A related content in the video. I don´t agree with everything that Kluwe said though.
Such as the part about the corruption in the industry, as Kluwe stated that the ethics and corruption problems is primarily the developers fault.
I would say that it´s more of a publisher related problem than anything else. And as for Kluwe´s statement about “#GamerGate being a hate movement” goes. As #GamerGate is a transparent, nameless, leaderless and faceless hashtag movement. It´s hard to put #GamerGate into that box. It´s true that the group has attracted haters, trolls and people of that kind in the past.
But the same thing can be said about the anti GamerGate movement as well. So it´s more a question about bad people doing bad things, than it´s a question about who does what under a certain hashtag. And who knows, some people might even spit out hate on both sides of the conflict, just for the fun of.
Because let´s face it. Trolls and haters will ALWAYS be attracted to big society topics such “GamerGate Vs Anti GamerGate“. As they just use that conflicts like that as a platform for their own enjoyment and pleasure.
In my opinion, it should be more about actually getting people charged for what they have done (no matter which side their on). And it seems like both sides (GamerGate and Anti-GamerGate) are rather divided about Pakman´s GamerGate videos. As some people hates Pakman´s GamerGate videos, while others think that the videos were pretty alright.
But i have to say that the most interesting parts of Pakman´s videos wasn´t the actual videos themselves (no offense David). No, instead it was the comments that people made as a response to the videos. Comments such as:
“when people like Anita Sarkeesian, and other SJWs having 0 influence in-game development and censorship of games is unthinkable in the game industry”Totally agree with that. I would just ad game press evaluating games solely on game-related criteria, like graphics, bugs, difficulty, DLC,… and not wether the female are too sexy, must be rescued by the hero or the presence of trans/gay/whatever as playable character.
Now, the fact that GG “is spilling” on convention, sci-fi awards accusation is easy to deflect : GG is primarily a consumer revolt, but it is also an important battle in a much broader cultural war. That war opposes 3d wave feminists/SJWs (who think whenever they don’t like something, they have the right to demand that it be changed) Vs the libertarians (who think if you don’t like something, just don’t buy it).
Or fans who just don’t want outsiders to dictate rules 5 minutes after they have joined a community or club of anything.Libertarians have won in some domains, like metal music or rap music, and SJWs have invaded and imposed their laws in other domains, like cosplay, tabletop card gamiing, conventions…Let me just repeat it, GG is only one battle in a much broader cultural war going on now.” – Mic MAC
“It’s the idea that for all harassment to cease, Gamergate must also cease. Because the existence of Gamergate is problematic or tainted by trolls.Why? It’s a fucking discussion on a few forums where people talk about shady stuff in the media. So if you close them down all trolls would just scuttle back into doing nothing? That the journos will start holding hands and sing kumbaya with the gamers?Good luck with that.
Trolls exist under any umbrella, /b/tards, FOAD goons, GNAA, lulzsec, the list goes on. The internet is a place where anybody do kinds of shit just because they feel like it. If there are threats against you, report them.” – Richard Lang
“I’d like to point out supporters of Gamergate had no issue with David interviewing Vox Day. The thing is the stuff talked about had very little to DO with #gamergate. There you go that’s it, that’s what we object to. If you’re going to talk about #gamergate Keep on topic. Gays being defective? bs from Vox Day keep that out of the conversation. Those issues are not gamergate” – Steve G
“When will gamergate’s issue be resolved? That same question can be asked of when will feminism’s issues be resolved? Its like saying what is the win condition for gamergate, and what is the win condition for feminism?Right now, the only way I see for gamergate to declare victory and go home is, when people like Anita Sarkeesian, and other SJW having 0 influence in-game development and censorship of games is unthinkable in the game industry.As for what win condition will cause feminists to declare victory and go home.
That is a harder question to answer. Feminist kept moving the goal post. From what I read from the current feminists rhetoric, feminists will not stop until, all out comes in society are equal in terms of gender. It’s not equal opportunity, which the first world females already have, its equal outcomes the feminists are seeking. Even when the feminists have achieved equal outcome by social engineering means, I have a feeling, feminists will use that same social engineering method to push for a dominance of females in society.” – entaclePentacle
“I hate to complain, but once again, I just felt like both people were missing the point. Why is it suddenly a huge deal that “gamergate” is moving into conventions and “real world spaces?” At the one convention that this happened at, Calgary, there were a dozen feminist focused panels. At that convention, we had one booth selling shirts and one single person who managed to air their views in a question and answer session. That’s really it. Why does no one mention that feminism is already wholesale infiltrated these real world spaces? It’s only mentioned when one single person asks a question.
And how can anyone claim that feminists and MRA have equal influence? That’s just dodging reality. Feminism accounts for about 20% of the entire population in the US. MRA members are almost surely less than 0.5%. It’s not even close. It’s not even remotely close. And feminists of course claim that they speak for 50% of the population, even though they don’t. The feminist influence in gaming, and in this controversy, MASSIVELY outweighs the MRA influence.
And also, Gamergate didn’t expand into sci-fi. Sad Puppies was started years before GG was even a thing. If anything, GG may have energized or motivated it. But it was already there. All it is doing is revealing that in all aspects of society, a whole lot of people have major issues with extremist feminist ideology, and with a media that wholesale endorses it without criticism, objectivity or skepticism. People will see it as GG “spreading,” but the reality is, that it already “spread” way before. 80% of the population does not self-identify as feminist. I have news for you guys. It already “spread.” GG is just shining a spotlight on how extreme feminism can be.
Did GG spread to astrophysics when the shirtgate scandal hit? No. That’s just what everyone that’s “normal” already thinks. – B Money
So what do you think? Did David Pakman pull a bait and switch with #GamerGate? And was his videos “fair” in terms of facts, questions and presentation of both sides of the story?
Robin “V-Act” Ek
The Gaming Ground
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