***Update 1 – 2016-12-07 – 20:40 CET ***

I have something that I would like to get off my chest, because last night I got into trouble with the mods over at Imzy.com. You see, I posted my FFXV OP post on their site (the post that you got in front of you right now). Well…Let´s just say that things didn´t exactly turn out the way that I had hoped for. First and for most, I´m pretty new to Imzy. So I had no idea that it´s a big no no to post content of the kind that we write at their house (don´t even think about publishing anything of #GamerGate, censorship, anti-SJW or anti-PC nature via Imzy). Simply put, my FFXV post got pulled shortly after that I had published it via Imzy:

imzy vs ffxv part 1

A fair warning, don´t even think about posting anything of political incorrect nature on the Imzy site, because you will get slammed to the ground in the blink of an eye.

imzy vs ffxv part 2

So much for my FFXV post…

I should also point out that even though I didn´t break any of Imzy´s site rules, I still ended up having my FFXV post pulled from their site. Furthermore, just now I saw these comments by mercysgaze (he or she is an Imzy user. I also believe that mercysgaze is a mod of some sort?):

mercysgaze imzy vs ffxv

It´s not okay to have the “wrong” set of opinions at Imzy, because that´s not allowed. “Offensive content” Say what? :S

Fair enough, at least mercysgaze stated that he or she didn´t like the fact that my FFXV post was taken down even though I didn´t break any rules. Even so, I have to state that I have no problem with mercysgaze opinions. However, I did not publish my FFXV post on Imzy to stir up drama and kick-off some crusade (that was never my intention). I also noticed that most of the Imzy users made it sound like they’re getting ready for war or something?

“Tbh giving your article a title that begins with “The Whine About” isn’t going to help anyone be more open to your article. If you want actual open and serious discussion about this stuff, it’s probably a good idea to drop a lot of the language that’s bound to set people’s teeth on edge before they even get to the actual article. As it is the title alone tells me where your bias lies, and I have no interest in reading a post where you basically dismiss criticism of a character design as whining. I love Final Fantasy, have since I was a teen, and I still fully intend to play FFXV. And yes I realize the FF devs have a tendency to skimp the dudes up as well, which I appreciate. That said, there’s a much bigger trend of sexualizing women, which does make Cindy’s design unfortunate, particularly because she’s one of a few female characters. (Which is also disappointing from an FF game)” – mercysgaze

lewd gamer on final fantasy xv

Imzy has a problem with Cindy Aurum looks, but I guess that they have no problems with Gladiolus Amicitia (or the other males) looks?

Any ways, the hard truth is actually that I had no idea that Imzy is even worse than Reddit and NeoGaf when it comes to safe spaces…So what basically happened was that I published something, which is not accepted on their site (I pretty much kicked in their safe space door and started to jam anti-PC/SJW songs like crazy), and since I´ve also been told that Imzy consists mainly of the people who left Reddit because of the “Reddit toxicity”. I soon started to realize why things turned out the way it did. Sure, I can admit that I should have picked a more professional headline for my FFXV post, but even so. I don´t think that I made any personal attacks, nor that I was overly aggressive in my FFXV OP post (I don´t get the “bad tone” part?).

Nevertheless, now I know that it´s not a good idea to publish posts of this “kind” on the Imzy site. As it´s very likely that the site´s mods and community will tear the post apart. As for me, I always try my very best to improve and to become more professional with everything that I set my mind to (I have written 1,900 posts since May, 2014). However, it´s pretty much impossible to please everyone, and I hardly doubt that I could have done anything to change the minds of the Imzy mods who pulled the plug on my FFXV (at least not without changing the content and my opinions completely).

final fantasy xv cindy aurum with the boys

Cindy Aurum = “Sexism” and a “over sexualized” character according to Imzy.

Well, I can´t change what has happened. So I´m just going to try to improve my writing skills as much as I possibly can. Nevertheless, I got one more thing that I would like to bring up. Because while I was reading through One Angry Gamer´s post on this matter (I told him about my Imzy “incident” last night”) I caught the following comment about my FFXV post:

“I’m of a mind to agree with mercysgaze, it sounds like the language and tone of the article was pretty acerbic. If you’re trying to convince people of something rely more on the logic point and try not to come off sounding so supercilious. I realize this is the definition of “tone-policing”, but i’m definitely more inclined to be open-minded to a new view when someone addresses me in a civil, respectful tone, rather than aggressive, patronizing one.” – Gerg Arata, Disqus user

I always try to be as civil and non aggressive as possible, but I honestly still don´t get why some people think that I was aggressive and had a “bad tone” throughout my FFXV post? Oh well…Personally, I agree with Billy from One Angry Gamer:

“I’m of a mind to agree with mercysgaze, it sounds like the language and tone of the article was pretty acerbic.I don’t think it’s any more antagonizing than articles from the opposite side of the view that calls people “misogynists” and “sexists” for liking characters like Cindy or the developers sexists and misogynists for making the characters.It’s the far side of the same coin. But my view is this: If one side is allowed to make inflammatory comments and criticisms, the other side should be able to do the same.I’m not really appreciative of censoring language on one side of an argument while allowing that language to flourish through social media on the opposing side just because it has a more “acceptable” viewpoint.I don’t remember Reddit, Twitter or Facebook coming down on Polygon when Ben Kuchera began censoring and banning users, calling them misogynists and sexists when people didn’t agree that #GamerGate was a harassment campaign.”Billy,  One Angry Gamer

Source:
Imzy
Archive link
One Angry Gamer
————————————————-

You know. You don´t even have to be a fortune-teller or a good gambler to know what will happen when it comes to sexy female characters in games. Well, at least nowadays. As it seems like digital booty and boobs are much worse than nuclear weapons, ISIS or cancer…And as you might remember, way back in June of 2015, I wrote a post called “SJWs wants to remove Tifa´s big breasts from Final Fantasy 7 Remake“. Well, nothing much has changed since then, as it still seems like female boobs in games are a big no no for “some” people. However, if you have no idea what I´m talking about, then please allow me to fill you in on what´s been going down as of lately.

belsnickel d janzen vs final fantasy xv

Reality check, the FF series has been like that since the FF1 days, and goes for both males and females.

You see, just recently people started to whine about Cindy Aurum´s boobs in “Final Fantasy XV” (as seen in the pictures down below). On a personal level, I don´t get the outcry, but I will still give my thoughts on the subject. However, before I start that, I would like to point out that this is nothing new. In the matter of fact, it´s been like this for years (it´s much worse now though…). Just take games like “Street Fighter V“, “Dead or Alive Xtreme 3“, “Tokyo Mirage” and “The Witcher 3″, all of them have been accused of everything from “sexism“, “misogyny” to being nothing more than “straight male sex fantasies“.

jonathan-mcintosh-vs cindy aurum

I´m not going to lie. It was cringe worthy to the max to watch Mcintosh ´s FFXV stream…Furthermore, he stated that Cindy Aurum is nothing more than pure eye candy for straight males. That´s 100% bullshit, there are plenty of bi and lesbian Gamers out there that loves Cindy Aurum (straight females love her too! Thus all the female cosplays of Cindy all over the world).

So I can´t say that I was surprised to hear that people like Jonathan McIntosh have targeted Cindy Aurum from “Final Fantasy XV”. Especially not when it comes to Mcintosh, as he works really hard to find stuff that he can whine about (Mcintosh loves to cherry pick through every single game that he plays). That´s also why Mcintosh has become very predictable, because you can pretty much guess on before hand what he will say (toxic masculinity check, sexism check, misogyny check, and so on).

final fantasy xv cindy aurum with the boys

Cindy Aurum is said to be a “straight male sexy fantasy” figure, but what about females who are bi or lesbians? They love Cindy too!

byndo gehk cindy aurum final fantasy xv

According to people such as Jonathan Mcintosh and Adam Ellis, females like Byndo Gehk don´t exist for real.

mark kern on final fantasy xv

This is actually what Cindy looks like beneath her attractive visuals.

Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with Cindy´s chest or outfit. So when Adam Ellis ( Illustrator/Author/Apparel Store/Buzzfeed) stated “have the designers of this game ever met a woman“. I couldn´t help to laugh, because Saori Itamuro is the lead scenario designer for FFXV, and then you got female cosplayers like Byndo Gehk, whom has cosplayed as Cindy Aurum in the past. So I think it´s safe to say that Ellis have no idea whatsoever what his talking about. As for McIntosh and his “straight male sexy fantasy” rubbish statements about FFXV, I only have this to say to him. Have you ever heard about bisexual and lesbian women McIntosh? You do know that they love boobs and sexy female game characters as well (so do straight female Gamers). Hell, even cats love boobs! (and who can blame them really?).

I also don´t get why McIntosh (and others) complains about Cindy´s outfit? I mean, it´s not like she´s working outside in the sun in the middle of the desert or something…(*deep sarcasm*. My point would be that even though I´m not as attractive and sexy as Cindy, I pretty much always work half-nude when the warm summer comes to Sweden. As I have no desire to faint due to the super warm weather. So I hardly doubt that it would make much sense for Cindy to wear a full-size burqa, because that seems to be what “some” people want for Cindy…(not on my watch!).

alpha omega sin on final fantasy xv

So I take it that those who whines about Cidney also sees Noctis Lucis Caelum, Ignis Scientia, Gladiolus Amicitia and Prompto Argentum as a straight female toyboy/sexy fantasy kind of thing?

lewd gamer on final fantasy xv

The point would be that the FF series has always offered male and female eye candy. So there is something in the FF series for everyone (no matter your gender or sexual orientation).

I also think that people like Jonathan McIntosh and Adam Ellis are nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites, because the main characters of FFXV (Noctis Lucis Caelum, Ignis Scientia, Gladiolus Amicitia and Prompto Argentum) are all super good-looking, buff and sexy to the max. Nevertheless, McIntosh and Ellis said nothing about that fact, they just whined about Cindy´s looks and boobs instead. Furthermore, it´s very insulting to the female Gaming community to assume that Cindy is simply a “straight male sexy fantasy” kind of character. Because who gives them the right to label Cindy as a “straight male” only kind of character? The truth is that pretty much everyone but the SJWs love Cindy (no matter their gender, race or sexual orientation). So it´s just plain ignorant and stupid to make a claim like that.

final fantasy x rikku

His point would be that female characters like Rikku (“FFX”, released back in 2001 for the PS2) has existed for a very long time.

kate upton vs final fantasy xv cidney aurum

Only a complete idiot would state that females like Cindy Aurum (the body type) don´t exist for real.

adam ellis vs female boobs

Not only is it extremely shallow to see females as nothing more than a pair of boobs, it´s also very sexist and stupid…Because Ellis seem to miss that there is a personality, a soul and a human being behind those female features (Cindy Aurum is a good example of that).

Sure, I can´t speak for everyone else now, but I honestly prefer to have sexy and attractive characters in my games (no matter if it´s playable or NPC characters). I mean, I´m not saying that every single character should look like a 10/10 super model, but when I get a chance to design my own character (s). I always tend to create a character that´s much better looking than the real me (I’m allowed to daydream right?). Because I´m not a 6.8″ tall and 300 lbs heavy guy in real who can carry a two-handed sword in each hand like it was no big deal. Simply put, I like to dream myself away from time to time, and games allow me to do that. As I can become who ever I want to and do whatever I want to (Duke Nukem 3D filled out that void for me as a teen, as I got to slay monsters, get babes and look super cool while doing it).

adam ellis comics hypocrisy

Okay…So Adam Ellis took a swing at Cindy Aurum for her cleavage, then at the same time he makes female comic characters with a cleavage just like Cindy´s. How does that even add up? (hypocrisy much?).

jonathan-mcintosh-vs-the-males-of-ffxv

1. If the main characters of FFXV had been females, McIntosh wouldn´t have whined about this matter. 2. “If” the male main characters had been females, then McIntosh would instead have tried to find something sexist about them (he looks very hard to find misogyny in everything there is).

There is another thing that I thought about as well. Actually, it´s math-related (don´t worry. It’s the simple kind of math). You see, as I stated earlier. Jonathan McIntosh (and others) whined about Cindy´s boobs, looks, “sexism” and whatnot. Well, Cindy is one person, while the four male main characters are FOUR people. So doesn´t that mean that there are at least three times as much male sexism in FFXV by their own logic? I´m of course just pulling your nose here, but it´s worthy of a thought at least (the males are just as much eye candy as Cindy is, and I have nothing against that whatsoever). I also recall The Mary Sue stating something about “Final Fantasy XV Fans are Sexist Pigs“? And “if” there´s any truth to that, then I think it´s a pretty stupid claim. Because I hardly doubt that the FF fanbase is 100% male, and that every single FF fan is a sexist pig (no matter the gender).

ian miles cheong vs jonathan mcintosh part 1

To be fair Ian, McIntosh has always been like that (at least to my knowledge).

ian miles cheong vs jonathan mcintosh part 2

I´ll tell you why Ian, it´s because his the kind of “critic” that only tosses out critics against others, but he can´t stand any criticism himself. Simply put, McIntosh not a “real” critic, he just loves to whine about stuff. As he always tend to close his door on anyone who voices a different opinion from his.

Nevertheless, I can´t help to laugh at people such as McIntosh, as the guy finds everything to be offensive (“boobs are offensive. Violence is offensive. A group of male friends is offensive”, and so on). Hell, he doesn´t even seem to realize that women love game boobs and sexy females too. So why wouldn´t I like female boobs and hot game chicks as well? Well, in McIntosh mind that´s all wrong and sexist…And since I also just happen to be a white straight male, I´m pretty much the spawn of Satan himself (it´s spelled “toxic masculinity”, it´s like kryptonite for McIntosh). I couldn´t care less though, because I´m proud of who I am, and I´m not going change or feel any shame over who I am or my skin color (In my eyes, McIntosh is just full of nonsense rubbish).

saori itamuro final fantasy xv

What was it that you said about FFXV being only for straight dudes McIntosh? Well, say hello Saori Itamuro, the lead scenario designer for FFXV.

So, all in all, I have come to the conclusion that boobs = Pure fear for people like McIntosh, and that it´s a weapon of choice for anyone who wants to piss them off. In my eyes though, boobs = life, and I love them no matter if they are real or fictional (as long as they belong to a female *insert your adult joke here*). It´s also worth mentioning that even though Roberto Ferrari (the guy who designed Cindy Aurum) was told to tone down Cindy´s sexiness (her breasts jiggled too much according to FFXV´s director Hajime Tabata), “some” people still whined that Cindy was “too sexy”. In other words, game developers and publishers should not cave into the loud minority voices.

Because no matter what they do, there will still always be someone like McIntosh out there that will whine about something being sexist in your game (s). As for FFXV as a whole, I´ve been told that the game is freaking awesome (we hope to give the game away for both Xbox One and PS4 in the near future, and a review will follow shortly as well!). So if you´re a fan of “Final Fantasy”, then I bet that you will enjoy the game a whole lot (that´s at least what other FF fans told me).

And with that said, what´s your take on this matter? Let us know your thoughts in the comment section down below!

Credit:
/Morbid_Complex.sys

Source:
Mombot
Adam Ellis
Jonathan McIntosh
Alpha Omega Sin

***Disclaimer***
This is a personal opinion of the writer, and it doesn’t necessarily represent the other writers (nor The Gaming Ground´s) opinions.

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Robin “V-Act” Ek
The Gaming Ground
Twitter: @TheGamingGround

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116 Comments ON " Final Fantasy XV – The whine about Cindy Aur... "
  • Mike Campbell

    to play devils advocate I think their complaint is that Cindy is moth more than pandering fanservice with no agency

  • King of Zeroes

    The funny part is that the characters in FFXV are the quite possibly the most sensibly dressed people the series has ever produced. I’m serious. I don’t think there’s a single cast member wearing more than one belt!

  • More evidence to prove that this feminist gender identity garbage is utter cancer.

    Why are they even complaining though? This game is fucking 95% fanservice for female gamers, and 5% fanservice for males. These SJWs/feminists are after all, for equality female supremacy right?

    And as usual, the handsome, muscled, chiselled pecs & abs male characters, which are clearly designed to pander to female gamers, are completely ignored. It’s amazing watching them drool over Cloud and complain about Cindy at the same time.

    As for Final Fantasy, the last one I had interest in was FF7. It seems ever since, the series has pretty much turned into nothing but a walking Yaoi boyband simulator. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against the material itself, but it would’ve been nice to have a share of fanservice for the male gamers, such as boobfags like myself.

    I’ll probably be skipping FFXV mostly for that reason. More boobs would’ve definitely got me on board though. Nevertheless, I’ll continue to defend the game against these SJW parasites.

  • Sevuz

    FFS, this is adults wasting their time bashing harmless fan service xD

    I have told my sister about these types of people and she had only this to say:
    THEY NEED TO GROW THE FUCK UP AND STOP BEING IDIOTS OR BETTER YET GET OF THE FREAKING INTERNET AND GET A LIFE https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d0824ceb33437231f80350da133bad8853ea82f9b1b3422709a5dac7ab5b5ad8.gif

  • MusouTensei

    Cindy is love, Cindy is life.

    • Oh yes :3 Because boobs = Life 😉

      • Rue Di

        reeeeeeeeeeeee

      • Jason Mounce

        Dem hips don’t lie tho and the thumping soundtrack that plays when you talk to her.

  • Zach Dygard

    Wow you actually wrote an entire article over this…

    Anyways, she is unattractive to me. I prefer women who look real. Personal preference though

  • Mmmmm, Horse!

    Without looking at her appearance at all, I think Cindy as a woman who’s hardworking, helpful, dependable, supportive and obsessed with cars is plausible and likable. I’d like a friend like her no matter what she looks like. She has a strange accent but she’s approachable anyway. I would definitely ask her first if my car breaks down, if she were in real life.

    I’m just surprised that neither side of the argument, after spending so much time arguing on the Internet, did not even talk about Cindy beyond her cleavage and dress code…. which means both sides are superficial and sexist. 😀

    • That would be it, yes 😉 Well, yeah, the accent part is true xD I don´t min though 😉 To be fair, Jay (he works for us) will do a review for FFXV, and his also working on a new Cindy OP (Jay will cover the part that you pointed out).

  • Zach Dygard

    You guys are worse than the whining SJWs, you’re whining about whining. Did you just devolve into bigger babies than the feminists? How much lower can people go..

    Whine whine whine about everything that’s all America is now. What happened to people shutting up, ignoring the BS and minding their you know what.

    It’s. All babies now and it looks to be a who is the bigger baby competition, and the journalist is today’s winner.

    • The hell are you talking about? I nailed down every single thing that they whined about and proved them wrong with facts. I don´t live in America, I´m not even American. When I see lies, bs and people who continues to push a false “sexism” narrative throug hardcore cherry picking (just like Josh). Then I call them out on their bs.

      So tough luck if you don´t like it, but I´m going to continue to do it.

      • Zach Dygard
        • That says quite lot about your intelligence, what are you going to do next? Send pictures of monkeys that throw shit on each other? Very mature indeed…

          • Zach Dygard

            Dude that’s a good idea. Monkeys throwing shit is a perfect analogy to all the BS going on about who’s right about which little perceived problem.

            You nailed it.

            As far as fist fighting you come on what are you white trash? Are you using AOL discs you got in the mail to surf the world wide web from your double wide trailer?

            Where did all this white trash come from recently. They’re coming out if the wood work like it’s friggin Free Busch Beer Day.

          • That fits you pretty well I have to say, since your full of bs 😉 Nope, AOL discs? Never heard of, the only trash here is you.

          • Mike Campbell

            He’s kinda right who cares, it’s their opinion even though I don’t agree with idiots like josh (who blocked me btw) but if people don’t like the way Cindy design that’s fine, I thought your about “freedom of speech”

          • “if people don’t like the way Cindy design that’s fine, I thought your about “freedom of speech”

            The same “freedom of speech” which resulted in Robin’s article getting pulled and censored on IMZY?

            There is only one side that is anti-free speech. And you know full well which side that is.

            “who cares”

            Well, it seems to be an astronomical deal for the SJWs and feminists. Maybe you should tell them that instead of us?

          • Because these people have already infected the games industry, and they want to infect it even more. They can say whatever they want, but I (and others) have the right to confront them (which people also did, and that resulted in having Josh block them on his Twitch stream).

          • “what are you white trash?”

            “Where did all this white trash come from recently”

            0/10

            You really should make it subtle son. Because you’ve given yourself away, you’ve made it ever so easy for people to dismiss you now (not that it wasn’t easy in the first place).

          • Zach Dygard

            No point in being subtle when arguing get with an idiot

          • And that makes you what? The uber idiot?

    • SnowB

      Thank you for your totally new and not stupid opinion. Clearly, ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away has been working so well up to now. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/db4dd35b90db3388387f53b4eef46975d0d6c28b6bb4dea3a77175c037c61056.jpg

      • Don´t bother with Zach, the guy is so butt hurt about this post that his now throwing around personal insults and whatnot.

      • That´s him for sure…

  • Migi

    Seriously!?! these ppl need a one way trip to an islamic country and then they can go scream
    misogyny.

    It really is more and more likely that SJW/FEM are the most stupidest ppl society has to offer, Considering most are pro-abortion they should be lining up for a abortion themselves at their current age. There is so much wrong with this generation off ppl and there aren’t enough words to discribe how stupid they are.

  • Ryan Barrett

    Last time I checked: the MAJORITY of Final Fantasy players are female, not male.

    • You don´t happen to have a source of that? Because I would love to use it against people who whine about FFXV being for “sexist pigs” and whatnot.

      • Ryan Barrett

        I’m sorry I don’t have any hard evidence to give you – wish I could – but I will tell you this: the ratio of FF fans at anime/gaming cons who are female greatly outnumber those of males. I can guarantee you that more women play JRPGs than men.

        • No sweat man =) I bet that´s the case though, because a lot of JRPG devs are females as well. I wonder who one would go about getting those numbers though? It might be worth looking into?

          • Ryan Barrett

            we should get an indie gogo going and tour the anime/gaming circuit of 2017 and poll people and make a documentary. 😀

          • You know what? That sounds like a really good idea 😉

    • “Last time I checked: the MAJORITY of Final Fantasy players are female, not male.”

      On the contrary, I don’t have any hard evidence either, but when going to gaming forums on the subject of FFXV, the threads were virtually filled with fanboys. Of course, this is the Western audience so I cannot speak when it comes to the Japanese audience.

      I imagine a lot of females do play Final Fantasy but I don’t think it’s the majority.

    • angh

      You checked it wrong:
      http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/brand-map-final-fantasy/091342

      “So who is playing? 65 per cent of gamers playing Final Fantasy are males”

      • Ryan Barrett

        Thanks, I stand corrected. However, I doubt 6700 people is a good enough number to represent the entire world of gamers, but I’d imagine it’d be closer to 55-45. My statement was pure hypothesis anyway.

  • Ladies and gents, this is what happens when you post content of this kind via Imzy.com:
    https://www.imzy.com/gaming/post/final_fantasy_xv_whine_about_cindy_aurums

  • Cael
  • Greg

    Pretty intellectually lazy, I could have read this on gamefaqs.

    • Then go there and stay there.

    • “Pretty intellectually lazy”

      Is that your codeword for: “I disagree with and hate this article” by any chance?

      • I bet that he came here from NeoGaf…

      • Greg

        No, it’s my codeword for “this ‘article’ consists mainly of logical fallacies and self serving misinterpretations.”

        • You´re full of bs, and you know it. “this ‘article’ consists mainly of logical fallacies and self serving misinterpretations.” Top kek of the day.

          • Greg

            “Reality check, the FF series has been like that since the FF1 days, and goes for both males and females.”

            Not sure what version of the series you’ve been playing, the designs for both genders was perfectly tame from I to VI, Tifa triangle boobs were a bit much in VII, Kuja was actually the sexiest person in IX if not the entire franchise up to that point, Fran’s metal fishnets with obligatory metal stilettos were ridiculous in XII, Wol from Mobius was pretty sexy until fans demanded they cover him up in a burqa, a fact that conveniently doesn’t come up in this 10,000 word write up on Final Fantasy and sexualization.

            I would argue just about every “modern” FF has shown a modicum of restraint towards the female form not commonly seen from Japanese games barring one exception per game, It’s just pretty jarring for people that this exception is pretty much the first woman you see as you cruise around in your man cave on wheels. I think that’s somewhat worthy of note.

            “Saori Itamuro is the lead scenario designer for FFXV…”

            Yes she is, and Tetsuya Nomura is the main character designer. Funny how those are two different jobs.

            “I only have this to say to him. Have you ever heard about bisexual and lesbian women McIntosh?”

            I’ve always found gamers interactions with with homosexual community amusing, one minute their “pushing an agenda” by trying not to be portrayed as caricatures if at all the next they’re useful shields. Given the majority of gamers and designers are straight males it would follow that characters would be designed to please a straight male audience. Overlap with the lesbian and bi minorities is more of a happy accident than an intention.

            “I also think that people like Jonathan McIntosh and Adam Ellis are nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites, because the main characters of FFXV (Noctis Lucis Caelum, Ignis Scientia, Gladiolus Amicitia and Prompto Argentum) are all super good-looking, buff and sexy to the max”

            Sound like the perfect male power fantasy and just like the one you enjoyed living vicariously through Duke Nukem. They’re designed as such for your benefit and not for the ladies. Now when your party is all where cropped tank tops and daisy dukes (which they don’t) as the camera tries to crash into their cock bulges (which they don’t have) then we can talk about fanservice for the ladies but being buff and not ugly are pretty low bars. Where is the focus on their bulges and asses?

            “Okay…So Adam Ellis took a swing at Cindy Aurum for her cleavage, then at the same time he makes female comic characters with a cleavage just like Cindy´s. How does that even add up? (hypocrisy much?).”

            You do realize that’s supposed to be Maeve, the prostitute, right? Funny how you manage to draw a comparison between how a prostitutes dresses and how Cindy does, though. It’s kinda Freudian.

            I can’t believe you based so much of this on the rantings of the Alex Jones of cultural criticism, it just gives away that your not actually interested in having a nuanced discussion on the issue, you just want some cheap clicks from KiA.

          • Nanya

            *Ahem*
            Rydia’s design in FF4 was fetish fuel for years until Tifa came out.
            Besides, I have ONE question about everyone’s complaints about the way Cindy dresses…

            Aren’t they in a desert? Or at least, in a very hot area?

            It… Kind of makes sense to wear less in such an area. While it would make more sense for her to wear longer pant legs, it doesn’t really matter, does it?

            If it bothers you so much, you need to readjust your “suspension of disbelief”. Are other characters, whether female or male wearing similar outfits? If so, then it fits. If not, then it doesn’t make sense.

            Anyway, I’ll leave you with a line that should apply to everyone who complains about “realism” in fiction.

            “The genre’s called fantasy, it’s meant to be unrealistic you myopic manatee!” – Epic Rap Battles of History, J.R.R. Tolken vs George R.R. Martin

          • “Not sure what version of the series you’ve been playing, the designs for both genders was perfectly tame from I to VI, Tifa triangle boobs were a bit much in VII, Kuja was actually the sexiest person in IX if not the entire franchise up to that point, Fran’s metal fishnets with obligatory metal stilettos were ridiculous in XII, Wol from Mobius was pretty sexy until fans demanded they cover him up in a burqa, a fact that conveniently doesn’t come up in this 10,000 word write up on Final Fantasy and sexualization.”

            – FF1 to FF7 and some of the later titles. “Wol from Mobius was pretty sexy until fans demanded they cover him up in a burqa”. Never heard of, so I would have to check up on it.

            “Yes she is, and Tetsuya Nomura is the main character designer. Funny how those are two different jobs.”

            – So what? That´s beyond the point. Josh made it sound like FFXV is only made by and FOR males.

            “I’ve always found gamers interactions with with homosexual community amusing, one minute their “pushing an agenda” by trying not to be portrayed as caricatures if at all the next they’re useful shields. Given the majority of gamers and designers are straight males it would follow that characters would be designed to please a straight male audience. Overlap with the lesbian and bi minorities is more of a happy accident than an intention.”

            – Do you suffer from reading difficulties? What did I write? Josh made it sound like FFXV is ONLY for straight males, and when bi and lesbians said that he was wrong on his Twitch stream he started to ban them!

            “Sound like the perfect male power fantasy and just like the one you enjoyed living vicariously through Duke Nukem. They’re designed as such for your benefit and not for the ladies. Now when your party is all where cropped tank tops and daisy dukes (which they don’t) as the camera tries to crash into their cock bulges (which they don’t have) then we can talk about fanservice for the ladies but being buff and not ugly are pretty low bars. Where is the focus on their bulges and asses?”

            – As far as I know, there are camera angels and scenes like that in the game, and please tell me the difference between a “male power fantasy” and “female eye candy”. Because I would love to hear your take on it.

            “You do realize that’s supposed to be Maeve, the prostitute, right? Funny how you manage to draw a comparison between how a prostitutes dresses and how Cindy does, though. It’s kinda Freudian.”

            – I don´t watch Westworld, so I had no idea who Maeve was. Even so, there are a lot of females who dress like Maeve, and still they aren’t no prostitutes. I also pointed out the heat problem in the desert.

            “I can’t believe you based so much of this on the rantings of the Alex Jones of cultural criticism, it just gives away that your not actually interested in having a nuanced discussion on the issue, you just want some cheap clicks from KiA.”

            – Did you just compare me to THE Alex Jones? For real? What goddamn issue? There is no ISSUE. Yes, because +3h and 2,000 words later = Cheap clicks.

          • Greg

            ” Never heard of, so I would have to check up on it.”

            I’m in your safe space, burstin’ your bubble.

            “- So what? That´s beyond the point. Josh made it sound like FFXV is only made by and FOR males.”

            I’m just being as overly literal as you were.

            “Do you suffer from reading difficulties? What did I write? Josh made it sound like FFXV is ONLY for straight males, and when bi and lesbians said that he was wrong on his Twitch stream he started to ban them”

            No, just mentioning a funny trend. Also, I don’t think you can actually confirm someones sexuality in twitch chat.

            “- As far as I know, there are camera angels and scenes like that in the game, and please tell me the difference between a “male power fantasy” and “female eye candy”. Because I would love to hear your take on it.”

            I just did. Without cock bulges, ass shots, and a sexually aggressive camera, all you have is what every straight male wants – strength and good looks. Without an equivalent to the blatant T&A female characters display you have an experience that somewhat overlaps with with what could be considered “eye candy” but at its core is designed to ultimately please its presumed straight male audience. Idealized forms sans sexualization is the difference people either willfully ignore or don’t understand during these discussions.

            “I also pointed out the heat problem in the desert.”

            I thought we established that clothing in FF has rarely, if ever, followed logic? If you use the defense of “it’s hot” you pull a thread that unravels the entire franchise. The problem isn’t that she under-dressed for her profession (everyone is), it’s that she’s under-dressed just so you can ogle her. If they wanted here to dress in line with her environment, they could have just given her a tank top.

            “I can’t believe YOU based so much of this on the rantings of the Alex Jones of cultural criticism…”

            I don’t see how you read this and did not understand Mcintosh was the the target of the comparison. Anyhow, if your picking fruit as low hanging as him, your after them cheap clicks or incredibly naive. He’s pretty much the biggest lolcow of the movement and has more or less been disavowed for his “more woke than you” antics. Johnathan Mcintosh is someone to laugh at rather than to use as a serious example.

            If you really want to step out of your hugbox and actually have challenge, why don’t you do a write up on “Power Fantasy, Male Objectification and Lady-Fanservice” by hbomberguy. It would be a better use of +3h and 2,000 words than some asshat that you know full and well is an asshat.

          • “whine whine bitch bitch moan moan”

            “If you really want to step out of your hugbox and actually have
            challenge, why don’t you do a write up on “Power Fantasy, Male
            Objectification and Lady-Fanservice”

            No need for a write up. Just look up the dictionary meanings of ‘double standard’ and ‘hypocrisy’, apply it to SJWs/feminists and you’re done. =)

          • Greg

            That’s right, lock those doors and windows. Can’t let those nasty rational thoughts slip into your safe space.

          • No safe space at my end Greg. I am rational to know that characters in video games are fictional, the stories in them are fictional, and the environments in them are fictional.

            The only safe space here is the one you’re in where Robin has already demolished. XD

          • Don´t waste your time and energy on him, his just a troll. Ignore him.

          • Greg

            So why are you so threatened by people criticizing fiction, then? If its not real why does what some people say about it matter to you? Surely, you with all your rationality would have better things to do.

          • Nanya

            “So why are you so threatened by people criticizing fiction, then? If its not real why does what some people say about it matter to you?”

            Because the “criticism” that is being leveled leads to censorship. It’s the same thing that the Church laid out against anything that wasn’t 100% pro-Church-approved Doctrine in the Dark Ages.

            In more recent times, that “criticism” has led to games not being released out West. DOAX3 anyone? And even games that do get released tend to be censored in various ways, see SFV with Cammy and R. Mika or Fire Emblem Fates with all the stuff they removed.

            Heck, that latter one was so bad that I decided AGAINST purchasing the game, even though I had been looking forward to it for years. Being a Fire Emblem fan, I was always waiting for the next installment. Sadly didn’t become a fan until after the Gamecube was done. 🙁 So I missed the Gamecube games when they were affordable.

            “Surely, you with all your rationality would have better things to do.”

            Right back at you and the other “critics”.

            And, BTW, you don’t think that gamers haven’t mocked gaming fantasy tropes for years?

          • Greg

            All reasonable people ask for is slightly less cleavage and a bit more equality between the treatment of male and female characters. I wouldn’t so causally compare it to an inquisition but I suppose hyperboles are easier to rail against than the actual thing.

            Not really sure what your point is about DOAX3, you can still buy it in English and it saves Tecmo Koei the cost of printing and shipping tens of thousands of copies of such a niche game to a foreign country. It was a simple business decision they used to get outrage sales and get publicity. I question if they really planned to release it here in the first place.

            Fates was a weird bit of overreach- removing petting was unnecessary given you could be equally creepy to guys (a feat that should be lauded) and the dialogue changes were Treehouse being Treehouse. I don’t know why they feel the need to make such arbitrary translation changes.

          • Nanya

            The mere fact that you missed the point with the inquisition is pretty sad. It’s also the reason that Huck Finn got edited later, books got burned, etc. Criticism from moral busybodies always leads to censorship of some kind. Need I remind you about Jack Thompson? Everything the current moral busybodies say about gaming is VERY similar to what Jack Thompson was saying back in the day as justification to restrict video games to people.

            As for DOAX3… Really? Last I checked I couldn’t go to Gamestop and buy it. If I want it, I would need to import it from Japan. And, yes, they were going to release it here, the DOAX games have ALWAYS done better in the West than in Japan. The mere fact that Koei-Tecmo decided to cut out their biggest market to avoid criticism is telling.

            And, outrage sales and publicity? Um, hello, if that was the case, they would have brought it over here anyway, but they didn’t.

          • Greg

            Honestly, if all you have are slippery slope and ad hominem fallacies then it no wonder your losing the culture war. Futhermore, if it wasn’t for the furor brought on by “moral busybodies” the game wouldn’t have broken sales records, it would have simply been released and forgotten.

          • Greg darling, you sure aren’t the sharpest tool in the shed are you now? Because you just reviled yourself to be nothing more than a poor playing troll.

          • Greg

            So he can react with smug scorn but when I do it I’m the troll. OK, then.

          • “That’s right, lock those doors and windows. Can’t let those nasty rational thoughts slip into your safe space.”

            – You started it.

          • Greg

            “whine whine bitch bitch moan moan”

            A completely well reasoned response to the discussion we were having.

          • You set bar early on, and you choose to play this game. So play ball you shall.

          • Greg

            I suppose that’s easier than refuting my points.

          • Don´t twist my words around. You´ve already been pawned by other users, so suck it up.

        • Then you must be blind.

          • He doesn´t want to see it, so it wouldn´t matter if I´ve written a 10,000 word long OP piece full of facts and evidence…

      • Don´t bother, it´s the same ass hat that has dropped comments via private Disqus accounts in the past.

  • Aaron blanchard

    I want bigger tits in my mouth and in my face. I want to bang this character like an Indian drum. Problem?? Fuck you.

    • That´s another way to see it I suppose 😛 But whatever rocks your boat 😉

  • Regarding the quote from mercysgaze:

    “And yes I realize the FF devs have a tendency to skimp the dudes up as well, which I appreciate. That said, there’s a much bigger trend of sexualizing women, which does make Cindy’s design unfortunate, particularly because she’s one of a few female characters. (Which is also disappointing from an FF game)”

    That sure is a polite way of saying: “I’m a hypocrite and I am for double standards”.

  • Lis

    While I totally agree that taking down your post was inappropriate, I do think your article is a bit inflammatory and full of relatively weak arguments (sorry if this comes of aggressively, I can’t find the right wording right now). I agree with some of the points Greg made earlier, but that argument has already been made and there is no point in rehashing it.

    However, I would say that not everyone who complains about oversexualization in video games is trying to ban it. Yes, there are some who are, and that’s not right. Everyone likes sexy stuff. But, I think the majority of people who complain about these things just want to see more sexualization on the male side OR more female characters that aren’t super sexualized. I would say FFXV does a great job at the latter, because all the other female characters are designed pretty seriously. Aranea has very noticeable cleavage and large breasts, but I don’t hear too many complain about her because, for the most part, she’s dressed rationally.

    I guess I’m just saying that I wish both sides could see each other’s arguments more, instead of being hypocrites towards each other (not calling you a hypocrite in particular, I just see a lot of hypocrisy when these two sides of the argument fight).

    • It has gotten to the point where I am getting extremely tired of these gender politics warriors ruining every fucking thing on earth.

      But seeing as my soccer team in England won today, I am in a relatively good mood, so I’ll give you some of my time. I cannot promise that I’ll be super polite though. =)

      “I do think your article is a bit inflammatory”

      If you think his article is a “bit inflammatory”, then you must be very soft.

      Also, Robin’s article is complete daisies when compared to what your SJW side have
      been doing in the mainstream media and mainstream games media by
      slandering gamers as “basement-dwelling sexist misogynist white males” etc. continuously for the last 2-3 years.

      But as usual, it’s okay when your side does it, and to a millions times worse degree where the difference is that what your side is doing is outright slander that could cause lawsuits if you upset the wrong person.

      “and full of relatively weak arguments”

      His arguments were not weak. If anything, he points out the hypocrisy and double-standards excellently. Ever notice how virtually every video male character is a handsome, muscle-bound warrior with perfectly chiselled pecs and abs? Oh of course not, your lot love to conveniently ignore all this by nature.

      Are you going to tell me that it’s a “male power fantasy” or “it’s different because male characters have agency” now? (both excuses are equally pathetic and are just excuses from SJWs/feminists to justify hypocrisy and double standards)

      Because we all know that your end game is to ban/censor anything that appeals to males and have EVERYTHING cater to females, exactly like what is happening now in movies, TV, entertainment, Anime, Cosplay, Tech, etc.

      And also, I could not care less about the “muh realism” stuff, you know the SJW bullcrap about how characters need to “dress appropriately according to situation/environment” thing. If you break it down, it’s just yet another excuse to remove fanservice that is aimed towards male gamers, but making it sound “diplomatic” and “rational” to garner support and sympathy. Example – bikini armor and boob plates, because:

      “It needs to be changed because it doesn’t protect her whole body”

      sounds better than:

      “I HATE IT BECAUSE IT OBJECTIFIES WOMEN, APPEALS TO MALE GAMERS AND I WANT IT BANNED”

      Because we all the latter is really what SJWs/feminists mean when they peddle the “muh realism” excuse.

      NEWSFLASH:

      1) Video games are fictional.
      2) The characters within them are fictional.
      3) And even if we are to use your nonsensical logic, the vast majority of male characters also show skin and have perfect chiselled physiques.

      Therefore, no sexism in video games.

      Video games are one of the best forms of escapism, therefore it should be completely free of politics and feminism.

      “However, I would say that not everyone who complains about oversexualization in video games is trying to ban it. Yes, there are some who are “

      But the absolute vast majority ARE trying to ban it. Do you EVER step out of that safe space and look what’s being peddled in mainstream games media, such as Kotaku and Polygon when it comes to the issue of fanservice for males? They’ve been doing it for the last 3-4 years. Anita Sarkessian have been peddling this non-stop before she fucked off to do that Women In History drivel.

      Have you the Western media’s response to DOAX3 VR? I can gives you examples if you want?

      “and that’s not right.”

      Indeed. Trying to get sexy female characters banned is not right. At least you have some standards.

      But, there is a reason why people complain about things. When a person complains about something, this person is doing it because he/she doesn’t like it. The end goal of it is to get it banned or changed. There is always an intent there. It’s rarely just someone having a whine and forgetting about it.

      That’s why these people are whining about Cindy. Their end goal is to have her gone, or have a burka dropped onto her, or make her fat, ugly and unattractive so the male gamers lose out.

      “But, I think the majority of people who complain about these things just want to see more sexualization on the male side OR more female characters that aren’t super sexualized.

      lol @ “muh equality”.

      This SJW/feminist attitude of “if we cannot get to have it, then you don’t get to have it either” is extremely bitter, spiteful and hateful. It’s pathetic.

      Sorry, but that’s the way things are. Until you change sexual dimorphism and remove the biological sexual desires of most male gamers and most men, do not expect this change in a significant manner.

      And don’t forget this little thing called capitalism and the free market.

      Also, as I’ve explained earlier, male characters ALREADY ARE “sexualized” because virtually all of them are handsome, muscle-bound warrior with perfectly chiselled pecs and abs.

      Besides, in FFXV, there is a huge imbalance of fanservice ratio, 99% for female gamers and 1% for male gamers. Therefore the people whining about Cindy should shut their mouths.

      In fact, the entire fucking Final Fantasy series always been a fujoshit Yaoi fangirl attracting bait anyway. Do you see me wanting it changed? No.

      But yet, a little bit of Cindy in an otherwise overload of sausage-fest is not okay. Jesus wept, the self-righteousness of SJWs/feminists is simply astonishing.

      “I would say FFXV does a great job at the latter, because all the other female characters are designed pretty seriously. Aranea has very noticeable cleavage and large breasts, but I don’t hear too many complain about her because, for the most part, she’s dressed rationally.”

      lol @ “muh realism”.

      More double standards I see. Your comment really does sum up your self-righteousness.

      What about Gladiolus? Feel free to show me a secret service agent for the POTUS who walks around with his shirt open.

      inB4 “male power fantasy” or “he has agency”

      “I guess I’m just saying that I wish both sides could see each other’s arguments more”

      Wrong. The only side that is not seeing and refusing to see their opposition’s arguments is the SJW side.

      There is a reason why people and GamerGate continuously get censored and banned on mainstream games media sites/forums whenever they have a different opinion that isn’t pro-SJW. Example being NeoGAF. I’m gone from there because I had the gall of not sucking up to Anita Sarkeesian.

      GG has tried reasoning with and debating with SJWs at the beginning, but quickly found that SJWs/feminists do not do facts, logic and reasoning.

      ” instead of being hypocrites towards each other (not calling you a hypocrite in particular, I just see a lot of hypocrisy when these two sides of the argument fight)”.

      The hypocrisy is only coming from the SJW side.

      The GG side (I’ll call the anti-SJW side GG for this as a reference) has never really been against SJWs/feminists adding extra material into video games.

      Instead, they are against SJWs wanting to ban and censor material at the expense of male gamers.

      There is a huge difference between “I want to ban this” and “I would like this added into the game”.

      And finally, I take it you’ve completely missed all the SJWs and feminist Tumblrettes drooling over Cloud and Noctis and whining about Tifa and Cindy.

      When we guys drool over Cindy and Tifa, we don’t complain about Noctis and Cloud.

      See the difference?

      The hypocrisy is all from your side.

      – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

      It has gotten to the point now where I seriously do think that video games need an ‘SJW Mode’. This mode would basically censor out all the stuff that feminists and SJWs dislike, in this case it would be the boobs, female skin, offensive dialouge, offensive text, sexual violence (against women of course), etc.

      That way, everyone’s a winner. Snowflakes can enjoy the SJW Mode, and us normal folks can enjoy the full game.

      Not only that, but I think an ‘SJW Mode’ can also help censor inappropriate content for children as well, because there are far too much grey areas when it comes to the board ratings of video games.

      This gender politics tripe has gone far enough.

      • Thanks for posting this, because this saved me a lot of time 😉

      • Lis

        I didn’t read all of that because you were already condescending. I don’t understand why you were so aggressive. I am not on any side, not the SJWs or yours because I see flaws in both. Why not just have a normal conversation instead of getting up in arms? I’m fine with being exposed to a different point of view when someone comes to me with grace (and yes, this includes the SJW side because they lack in this department severely as well).

        *Edit: I’m reading over it now to see your points now after I’ve expressed that I’m not trying to attack you. Give me a moment*

        • “I don’t understand why you were so aggressive.”

          Firstly, I do not find what I said to be “aggressive” at all.

          And secondly, even if I were “aggressive” (which I am not), that’s probably to do with the fact that people like you are trying to censor and remove things that male gamers enjoy very much. (so much for that “diversity” then huh?)

          I guess our definitions of “aggressive” is different. Which is fair enough.

          But let me tell you, if I really were to be aggressive (by my standards) I would just simply tell you to stop whining, fuck off back to your safe space and play marbles on the motorway. But the fact is, I’m not, instead I’m actually giving you my time.

          “I’m reading over it now to see your points now after I’ve expressed that I’m not trying to attack you.”

          It doesn’t matter if you’re attacking me or not. I do facts, not feelings.

          Feel free to attack me in whatever way you want.

      • Lis

        Also, Robin’s article is complete daisies when compared to what your SJW side have been doing in the mainstream media and mainstream games media by
        slandering gamers as “basement-dwelling sexist misogynist white males” etc. continuously for the last 2-3 years.

        I totally understand that. That’s why I said “a bit”. He’s not going off the rails or anything remotely close to that. Perhaps it is because I am not used to people finger-pointing and name-calling specific people outsides of politics. Not only am I female but I’m a minority, so I see a bunch of the “ew men are gross” and “White people are evil” shit on social media outlets like Tumblr and Facebook. I don’t like it at all, it only adds to the divisiveness. I try to call it out when I see it then, too.

        Are you going to tell me that it’s a “male power fantasy” or “it’s different because male characters have agency” now? (both excuses are equally pathetic and are just excuses from SJWs/feminists to justify hypocrisy and double standards)

        I’m not familiar with the “agency” bit, but I am with the former. I do subscribe that it exists, but there is no way I would be able to convince you of that nor am I trying to. But, if it sheds any light whatsoever, here are a couple of articles that discuss sexualization of men

        http://www.hercampus.com/school/mizzou/mens-underwear-ads-and-hyper-sexualization

        http://heatst.com/culture-wars/the-2016-rio-olympics-have-been-ruined-by-the-female-gaze/ (This article seems to be a bit more sarcastic but I believe it still has valuable information)

        Because we all know that your end game is to ban/censor anything that appeals to males and have EVERYTHING cater to females, exactly like what is happening now in movies, TV, entertainment, Anime, Cosplay, Tech, etc.

        Once again, you’re assuming things about me that isn’t true. You want the truth? I’m sexually attracted to both men and women and I’m probably gawking at women’s asses more than you are. But I still understand where some people come from when they have grief over how female characters are written and represented.

        “muh realism”

        People will cherry pick about realism. Some will say “bikini armor is fine, fiction doesn’t need to be realistic!” while also complaining about minorities being in european-influenced fantasy settings. Or overweight people in action-packed or athletic situations.

        So, you are right, fiction does not have to be realistic. Simply because it is fiction. But, from my experience, people become upset when a specific depiction is the vast majority. For example, black women used to primarily be portrayed as “mammy” characters in the early 1900s. If there were more diverse character portrayals of black women during this time period then people would not have been upset about it.

        So yeah, a lot of people are trying to “ban” sexy female characters just like a lot of people tried to ban mammy characters. However, people seem to forget that human sexuality is different than blatant racism, and wanting to see something/someone sexually attractive is not a crime. This is where I find the SJW side extreme.

        Do you EVER step out of that safe space

        Yes, I do. I honestly think the DOA Xtreme 3 dilemma had more to do with it most likely not selling too well here in the U.S. If the company thought it would make profit, they would have sent it over here. You have games like Senran Kagura and Haydee that exist in the Western sphere perfectly fine. But I do understand my opinion on this matter is different from yours, and I respect your point of view

        Anita Sarkeesian

        a big name that makes causrs controversy much similar to how Milo whatever-his-Greek-last-name-is does the same in regards to men’s rights activists.

        Sorry, but that’s the way things are. Until you change sexual dimorphism and remove the biological sexual desires of most male gamers and most men, do not expect this change in a significant manner

        I don’t. Most rational people don’t, humans are sexual beings. I just believe people are slowly figuring out that women want sexy things too.

        What about Gladiolus? Feel free to show me a secret service agent for the POTUS who walks around with his shirt open.

        I’ve discussed how I feel about realism. And I will be honest, the beginning scene when you see Gladio’s ass as he pushes the car was very appealing. However, I found the open-shirt thing to not be super sexy. HOWEVER, that is just my personal opinion. (Not gonna lie, was secretly hoping he’d be shirtless when I removed his jacket).

        GG has tried reasoning with and debating with SJWs at the beginning, but quickly found that SJWs/feminists do not do facts, logic and reasoning.

        I will be honest again, I ran across this post by trying to search some things up for FFXV. I don’t have much knowledge of this site or your experience with SJWs on this site. I can see why you would be very jaded to these types of conversations. It feels like people are trying to unrightly take things away from you, and that’s totally valid.

        From my point of view, I always see two sides arguing and making logical fallacies and hypocrisies. I feel like no one ever wants to just try to listen to the other side, one side only tries to convince the other side that they right, the other side is wrong.

        There is a huge difference between “I want to ban this” and “I would like this added into the game”.

        This is a very fair point.

        And finally, I take it you’ve completely missed all the SJWs and feminist Tumblrettes drooling over Cloud and Noctis and whining about Tifa and Cindy.

        Of course not. However, Noctis and Cloud are fully clothed. There’s a different between fawning over good looks and fawning over sexy bodies. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with Tifa, though

        When we guys drool over Cindy and Tifa, we don’t complain about Noctis and Cloud.
        See the difference? The hypocrisy is all from your side.

        You are not wrong, but fail to put in the context. You are right, the hypocrisy is there, but it stems from years (centuries of you want to be historical, blah blah blah) of feeling disadvantaged for gender-sexual reasons. Men, from my experience, want to be drooled over because they don’t get to have the experience very often. They are not validated on their attractiveness. Women, on the other hand, get too much of it, which is why they are more sensitive to it than men are. Does it make the hypocrisy fair? No. But both sides being able to see where the other is coming from can help one another come to a common solution.

        • “I totally understand that. That’s why I said “a bit”. He’s not going off
          the rails or anything remotely close to that. Perhaps it is because I
          am not used to people finger-pointing and name-calling specific people
          outsides of politics.”

          Come on let’s face it, you saw what he was saying and you didn’t like it so you’ve resorted to the “oh he’s name-calling” tactic.

          To me, what Robin wrote isn’t even remotely close to “name-calling”. I suggest you grow a thicker skin and stop operating on “muh feelz” like as if it gives you some kind of morally superior right over everybody else.

          Personally, with all due respect and politeness, I think hypocrites like you need to be called out. Because you’re stifling artist’s/developer’s freedom of expression and creativity and causing indirectly-forced-censorship. It’s unacceptable.

          Feel free to insult me however you want. I can take it.

          “People will cherry pick about realism. Some will say “bikini armor is fine, fiction doesn’t need to be realistic!” while also complaining about minorities being in european-influenced fantasy settings. Or overweight people in action-packed or athletic situations.”

          If you ask me, I personally think trivial “realism” in video games is complete horse shit, and today it only serves as an excuse for moral authoritarians to get material they dislike censored and banned. It’s almost like the “think of the children” card that feminists love to use.

          “cherry pick”? Yes, a bit like you cherry-picking sexualization of female characters but completely ignoring sexualized male characters by passing it off as “male power fantasy”.

          It’s exactly what your heroine Anita Sarkeesian does remember?

          To take a leaf out of your own book, I could also make the argument that sexy female characters is a FEMALE POWER FANTASY. Because it’s proven in real-life that beautiful/sexy women have absolutely all the power over men, and the women themselves who have this power love this. How do you like them apples? =)

          “So, you are right, fiction does not have to be realistic. Simply because it is fiction. But, from my experience, people become upset when a specific depiction is the vast majority. For example, black women used to primarily be portrayed as “mammy” characters in the early 1900s. If there were more diverse character portrayals of black women during this time period then people would not have been upset about it.M”

          Again, “muh realism” and “gender politics”.

          Let artists create or just make your own games?

          “humans are sexual beings.”

          Correct. Unfortunately you don’t seem to apply that same logic to men

          “I just believe people are slowly figuring out that women want sexy things too.”

          I can also argue that fanservice for females have existed for ages anyway. Virtually all male characters who are handsome with perfectly scultured bodies over the last 2 decades or so should’ve been obvious to you.

          It does not justify censoring sexy female characters though. And you’re complaining because that’s what you want. Pure bigotry.

          “and wanting to see something/someone sexually attractive is not a crime.”

          It’s only a crime if it’s men wanting and finding female characters sexually attractive right?

          “Yes, I do. I honestly think the DOA Xtreme 3 dilemma had more to do with it most likely not selling too well here in the U.S. If the company thought it would make profit, they would have sent it over here.”

          “more to do” – so you admit that SJWs were an influence.

          The rest of the stuff you have said also came from the SJW/feminist games media outlets as well for damage control after gamers hammered them.

          Maybe you should look at the initial Tweet Koei Tecmo on the reason why they didn’t bring the game out to the West before you start peddling the “they didn’t think it would sell well in the West” excuse. Did you know that the prequel DOAX2 sold better in the West than it did in Japan?

          It will also interest you to know that Summer Lesson, some kind of a VR dating sim game by Namco, is also not heading to the West due to fear of SJW backlash, as the developer himself Harada Katsuhiro implies. Bravo to people like you then.

          “You have games like Senran Kagura and Haydee that exist in the Western sphere perfectly fine.”

          That’s irrelevant to DOAX3 because Senran Kagura and Haydee are made by different developers.

          The reality is that Koei Tecmo did not bring DOAX3 to the West thanks to people like you.

          “Anita Sarkeesian a big name that makes causrs controversy much similar to how Milo whatever-his-Greek-last-name-is does the same in regards to men’s rights activists.”

          With the difference being Milo and the MRA operating on facts by having legitimate concerns over the sheer mainstream media bias, academia bias, law court bias and social bias against men. You know, the IMPORTANT issues.

          Anita on the other hand, lies, lies and lies about the patriachy. And she’s racist and sexist against white men as well.

          Unless you’re one of those spacks who genuinely believes that women cannot sexist against men?

          “I’m not familiar with the “agency” bit, but I am with the former. I do
          subscribe that it exists, but there is no way I would be able to
          convince you of that nor am I trying to. But, if it sheds any light
          whatsoever, here are a couple of articles that discuss sexualization of
          men”

          Thank you admitting and showing that “sexualization” of men exists too. See there, that wasn’t too hard was it? =)

          “But I still understand where some people come from when they have grief over how female characters are written and represented.”

          That’s a very polite way of saying “I want to censor sexy female characters because I personally don’t like it”

          “muh realism” again

          “I’ve discussed how I feel about realism. And I will be honest, the beginning scene when you see Gladio’s ass as he pushes the car was very appealing. However, I found the open-shirt thing to not be super sexy. HOWEVER, that is just my personal opinion. (Not gonna lie, was secretly hoping he’d be shirtless when I removed his jacket).

          “ITS OKAY WHEN WE DO IT!!”

          All this does is just expose your hypocrisy and double-standards. Do you write for BuzzFeed by any chance?

          This proves my point and is precisely why there’s growing push-back against people like you.

          The fact that you were so blatant with your hypocrisy means that you have pretty much invalidated your right to complain about Cindy now.

          “Not only am I female but I’m a minority, so I see a bunch of the “ew men are gross” and “White people are evil” shit on social media outlets like Tumblr and Facebook.”

          Both these sites are mostly SJW/PC cancer, run by SJW/PC cancer.

          “I don’t like it at all, it only adds to the divisiveness.”

          A bit like what people like you are doing to the video games industry and gamers then by constantly whining complaining about female skin in games then?

          “Of course not. However, Noctis and Cloud are fully clothed. There’s a different between fawning over good looks and fawning over sexy bodies.”

          No there isn’t a difference, fawning over a person over their physical attractiveness is the same regardless of whether that person is clothed or not. At the end of the day, it’s ogling someone because you like that person’s physical looks and because it sexually pleases you. It does not matter if the person is clothed or unclothed.

          Let me guess, girls/women fawn over Justin Bieber for his personality and music right? And not his abs and looks? Give me a break.

          So nice hypocrisy again buttercup.

          “You are right, the hypocrisy is there”

          At least you are big enough to admit it. Credit to you.

          But regardless, hypocrisy is unacceptable in my view.

          “but it stems from years (centuries of you want to behistorical, blah blah blah) of feeling disadvantaged for gender-sexual reasons.

          So that’s you admitting you want some kind of revenge and comeuppance agaist men. If anything, this makes you just as bad as the ones you claim to have “oppressed” you. Then again, not surprising coming from a feminist.

          And by the way, sexual dimorphism is NOT a social construct.

          Men, from my experience, want to be drooled over because
          they don’t get to have the experience very often. They are not
          validated on their attractiveness.”

          Again, same old “male power fantasy”, “agency”, “it doesn’t happen as often to men”, “men actually like it” rubbish. BUT at least you admit that women do it to men as well.

          Regardless, it does NOT justify the double standards.

          If you honestly think that men aren’t validated on their physical attractiveness, then you’re absolutely deluded. Either that or you’re just dishonest and pushing your “only women are victims” narrative.

          Men are validated on their looks AND their bank account by women. That’s even worse.

          And I bet YOU fucking do it as well. Whether that be in a nightclub, bar, etc.

          “Women, on the other hand, get too much of it”

          Both men and women get too much of it. Men have to have the bank account to match as well.

          The mainstream media and women’s publications are filled with feminists who like to make it as if it only happens to women and that only women suffer from it. I suggest you expand your horizons.

          “which is why they are more sensitive to it than men are.”

          Yeah, we all know that every single man out there does not feel an ounce of hurt when rejected by women purely because of their physical looks.

          But it’s okay because “muh wymmin are sensitive” right?

          And also, ever since the dawn of fucking time, socially it’s always been the man having to get the woman. That’s why men are always required to make the first move in the dating game. So going by that logic, men are the ones who are judged and rejected MORE frequently on the basis of their physical appearence for not being up to the woman’s standards.

          But of course, you wouldn’t let logic like that get in the way of your feminist narrative would you?

          Your bias, hypocrisy and female-only-victim-hood-grievance is making me very nauseous now.

          “Does it make the hypocrisy fair? No. But both sides being able to see where the other is coming from can help one another come to a common solution.”

          So that’s the “cover Cindy up and have Noctis in a thong” solution for muh equality then.

          Like I said at the end of my previous reply to you, it has gotten to the point now where I seriously do think that the solution is that video games need an ‘SJW Mode’. This mode would basically censor out all the stuff that feminists and SJWs dislike, in this case it would be the boobs, female skin, offensive dialouge, offensive text, sexual violence (only against women of course), etc.

          That way, everyone’s a winner. Snowflakes like you can enjoy the SJW Mode, and us normal folks can enjoy the full game.

          This gender politics tripe has flushed the entire video games industry down the fucking toilet. Deary me.

          • Lis

            Because you’re stifling artist’s/developer’s freedom of expression and creativity and causing indirectly-forced-censorship. It’s unacceptable.

            I don’t want to? I don’t want Cindy censored. I don’t want these “sexy games” censored. I honestly don’t understand how you haven’t grasped that by now.

            Feel free to insult me however you want. I can take it.

            I don’t like resorting to insults, it takes away from productive dialogue. But you doing so is your own prerogative, I suppose.

            To take a leaf out of your own book, I could also make the argument that sexy female characters is a FEMALE POWER FANTASY. Because it’s proven in real-life that beautiful/sexy women have absolutely all the power over men, and the women themselves who have this power love this. How do you like them apples? =)

            Why the whole “male power fantasy” comes to view is due to the audience of a work of fiction. If you look at Arnold Schwarzenegger movies or games like God of War, the primary audience is intended to be male. Therefore, the creators and marketers are catering to male tastes. On the flip side, Marvel movies have been catering to their female viewers by showing half-naked superheroes. An example would be the scene from Thor when he’s shirtless.

            Another example, on the female side, would be how women are portrayed in the xXx franchise vs. Victoria Secret adverts. In both forms of media, the women are half-naked but for the former the women are presented in a way to attract men, the latter to attract women. So the “female power fantasy” thing can be applied to VS models, but not to portrayals of women that are meant to be seen by men.

            So, I guess the apples are just fine?

            Let artists create or just make your own games?

            Yep, as I’ve stated, totally agree. Artists can create whatever they want, but when you put things in the public sphere you are always open to criticism. At a Cannes Film Festival, one movie was received so badly that the audience was booing by the end of the film. This is usually considered rude, but by putting his film out in the open, he must be prepared for things like this. So, this can be flipped back on you to grow a thick skin and either a) accept the criticism or b) ignore it and keep doing what you want to do.

            Correct. Unfortunately you don’t seem to apply that same logic to men

            Sigh. Yes, I do.

            Did you know that the prequel DOAX2 sold better in the West than it did in Japan?

            No, I didn’t. Thanks for the information

            That’s irrelevant to DOAX3 because Senran Kagura and Haydee are made by different developers.

            No it’s not, because if the real reason that an entire company avoided releasing a game was because of SJW backlash, then they are lacking the thick skin you praise so much.

            With the difference being Milo and the MRA operating on facts by having legitimate concerns over the sheer mainstream media bias, academia bias, law court bias and social bias against men. You know, the IMPORTANT issues.

            Anita on the other hand, lies, lies and lies about the patriachy.

            This is where, once again, the two sides like to fling words at each other such as “real issues” and “fake issues”. There’s no point in arguing this, since I find both sides and both people to be annoying and childish.

            Thank you admitting and showing that “sexualization” of men exists too. See there, that wasn’t too hard was it? =)

            Considering this is something I have believed in for a while, no, I suppose it wasn’t.

            That’s a very polite way of saying “I want to censor sexy female characters because I personally don’t like it”

            Already covered that’s not what I want.

            “ITS OKAY WHEN WE DO IT!!”

            This was supposed to be me being forth-right. I was highlighting the whole “humans are sexual beings” bit I talked of earlier. I liked staring at Gladio’s ass just like some people liked staring at Cindy’s thong. It was supposed to be a relating point, but I guess it was not interpreted that way.

            A bit like what people like you are doing to the video games industry and gamers then by constantly whining complaining about female skin in games then?

            Already covered

            At the end of the day, it’s ogling someone because you like that person’s physical looks and because it sexually pleases you. It does not matter if the person is clothed or unclothed.

            There is a difference between beauty and sexuality, even though both can be combined. For example, if you look at Anne Hathaway’s face, one could say she is beautiful. A person’s automatic response isn’t sexual intercourse just by looking at her face. However, if you were shown an image of Megan Fox posing sexily over a car, the exposure of sexual body parts elicits a sexual response from the viewer.

            So that’s you admitting you want some kind of revenge and comeuppance agaist men

            Once again, I am not speaking for myself. But at this point, I don’t think you care.

            And no, it’s not revenge against men. It’s people frustrated about seeing a particular thing they view as damaging, even if this “damaging thing” is becoming less frequent. They automatically associate it with “bad” instead of rationally thinking that the thing itself is not bad, it was the previous and historical context of it. People, in general, have a hard time removing stigmas.

            And by the way, sexual dimorphism is NOT a social construct.

            When did I ever say that?

            If you honestly think that men aren’t validated on their physical attractiveness, then you’re absolutely deluded.

            Nope, this comes from my experience with multiple male acquaintances, family members, and of course, the millions of people on the internet. Multiple male friends have expressed to me that they are often not given compliments on their physical appearance. Not by men, not by women. They have expressed wishing they could get more of them. Thus, some of them have a hard time understanding why women don’t like certain types of “compliments”, because they wish they could get ANY type of compliment.

            And I bet YOU fucking do it as well. Whether that be in a nightclub, bar, etc.

            Not a party-goer. Also a college student, so everyone’s poor.

            I suggest you expand your horizons.

            I could suggest you do the same.

            Your bias, hypocrisy and female-only-victim-hood-grievance is making me very nauseous now.

            This whole section was filled with assumptions and unrelated information that I honestly just don’t know how to respond without getting further off topic.

            Look, I tried to come to you being open to your viewpoint. I tried to tell you that I’m not here to attack you. However, for whatever reason, you have been so hurt by people you assume I am like that you cannot hold a conversation with me without resorting to insults and finger-pointing.

            You can say I “lost” the argument or whatever other snide comment I’m sure you have ready for me, I wasn’t trying to create one to begin with. I just wanted discussion. However, I can’t have a conversation with someone who can’t be respectful.
            It’s amazing how I’m a self-hating woman to SJWs and an SJW to you guys.

            It’s sad. You guys don’t see that you both are exactly the same

            Despite all of this, I wish you the best.

          • “I don’t want Cindy censored. I don’t want these “sexy games” censored. I honestly don’t understand how you haven’t grasped that by now.”

            So why are you complaining about Cindy then?

            Don’t you see that when you, the other SJWs and the mainstream games media complain about it constantly, it eventually influences and affects the developers, which causes them to be fearful of creating sexy female characters?

            It’s called indirect censorship through fear-mongering. The MSGM, Anita Sarkeesian and her followers are the experts at this. You know, when a dev dares to portray a female in negative way, the Twittertards and Tumblrettes all gang up and bully the developer in censoring it.

            Oh I get it, it’s that precious equality you want isn’t it? Because if female gamers don’t get to have fanservice, then male gamers cannot either right? (despite FFXV being 95% fanservice for females and 5% fanservice for males).

            You know the scientist Matt Taylor in England? Shirtgate? The guy who wore that shirt with the cartoon women on it? The SJWs and feminists bullied him into tears and made him apologize on live TV. And when did apologize, SJWs still continued to bully him. These are the people on YOUR side.

            “Why the whole “male power fantasy” comes to view is due to the audience of a work of fiction. If you look at Arnold Schwarzenegger movies or games like God of War, the primary audience is intended to be male. Therefore, the creators and marketers are catering to male tastes.”

            Just because the movies are targeted towards men does not mean women cannot ogle the men in them. There’s no set rule. In fact, I find what you said very dishonest, as if saying that a movie that’s catered towards men automatically means women won’t be able to gaze at the male characters.

            It’s like wrestling. Despite the show being geared towards men, I can tell you that there’s loads of women who watch it just because they can ogle at the half-naked muscle men in tight outfits. Same with UFC, and of course, the male swimmers in the recent Olympics.

            “On the flip side, Marvel movies have been catering to their female viewers by showing half-naked superheroes. An example would be the scene from Thor when he’s shirtless.”

            Yep. And of course, if it was the other way round, you, SJWs and feminists will bitch non-stop about it. Double standards.

            But no, it’s a “male power fantasy”, etc.

            Another example, on the female side, would be how women are portrayed in the xXx franchise vs. Victoria Secret adverts. In both forms of media, the women are half-naked but for the former the women are presented in a way to attract men, the latter to attract women. So the “female power fantasy” thing can be applied to VS models, but not to portrayals of women that are meant to be seen by men.

            I see nothing wrong with women portrayed to be attractive to men.

            Just like I don’t see anything wrong with men portrayed to be attractive to women.

            After all, we are sexual beings at the end of the day. It’s what results in the human species being able to continue. Produces families you know?

            But you’ve got it in your head that when women are portrayed to be attractive to men, it’s wrong. BUT when men are portrayed to be attractive to women, it’s okay.

            You’re for “equality” remember?

            Boy, your double standards are reaching critical levels now. Might need to tone down on it a bit.

            “So, I guess the apples are just fine?”

            I doubt they are, because sexy females are a female power fantasy at the end of day.

            “No it’s not, because if the real reason that an entire company avoided releasing a game was because of SJW backlash, then they are lacking the thick skin you praise so much.”

            Potential SJW backlash is the reason why Koei Tecmo stopped the game from coming to the West.

            And yes, GamerGate people and I hammered Tecmo because they are fucking cowards.

            But you do realize that you can hardly blame Tecmo right? The sheer stigma of being labelled as “sexists” and “misogynists” is damaging to companies and their PR. Koei Tecmo are an AAA company, unlike Marvellous/Tamsoft.

            So stop playing the “we didn’t stop the game coming out to the West, Koei Tecmo themselves did” card. You know full that people like yourself are the ones that stopped the game coming to the West.

            “This is where, once again, the two sides like to fling words at each other such as “real issues” and “fake issues”. There’s no point in arguing this, since I find both sides and both people to be annoying and childish.”

            Real issues: fathers rights, divorce courts, family courts, child custody courts, male suicide, etc. from Milo and MRA

            Fake issues: wage gap, patriarchy, rape culture, cat-calling, mansplaining, manspreading, air conditioning, etc in the Western societies from SJWs and feminists

            Childish ones seem to be SJWs and feminists

            “Yep, as I’ve stated, totally agree. Artists can create whatever they want, but when you put things in the public sphere you are always open to criticism.”

            There’s a difference between criticism and calling developers and gamers “sexist misogynist woman-haters”, which is what your side are doing

            “So, this can be flipped back on you to grow a thick skin and either a) accept the criticism

            No it cannot be flipped back onto me because I’m not the one complaining, I’m actually defending the culture. And sorry, I don’t think devs should accept self-righteousness and bigotry.

            “b) ignore it and keep doing what you want to do.”

            You know full well that’s close to impossible with the entire mainstream games media, SJWs and feminists screaming sexism and misogyny at anyone who even dares to portray female characters in a “negative” manner

            “Sigh. Yes, I do.”

            No you don’t apply the same logic to men because you’re complaining of Cindy being for the male gaze

            [on censoring female characters] “Already covered that’s not what I want.”

            You want Cindy covered up

            “This was supposed to be me being forth-right. I was highlighting the whole “humans are sexual beings” bit I talked of earlier. I liked staring at Gladio’s ass just like some people liked staring at Cindy’s thong. It was supposed to be a relating point, but I guess it was not interpreted that way.”

            B-B-But it’s wrong when people (i.e. men) stare at Cindy’s ass right

            “There is a difference between beauty and sexuality, even though both can be combined. For example, if you look at Anne Hathaway’s face, one could say she is beautiful. A person’s automatic response isn’t sexual intercourse just by looking at her face. However, if you were shown an image of Megan Fox posing sexily over a car, the exposure of sexual body parts elicits a sexual response from the viewer.”

            Both are sexual attraction and leads to sexual thoughts and responses at the end of the day. The only difference is Anne Hathaway’s face leads to it slower than Megan Fox over the car.

            Men find beautiful women’s faces sexy too. I’m one of them.

            There’s a reason why there’s mountains of porn of men using his hands to fap over and then cumming onto beautiful faces of women. It’s an actual category in porn

            “Once again, I am not speaking for myself.”

            Then who are you speaking for? Don’t tell me you’re one of those feminists who thinks she speaks for all women

            Because I can assure that you do not, and thank god you don’t

            And no, it’s not revenge against men.

            Coming from the same person who wants male characters to be even more sexualized and female characters covered up

            And the actions of MSM, SJWs and feminists suggest otherwise. These are the people on your side

            It’s people frustrated about seeing a particular thing they view as damaging, even if this “damaging thing” is becoming less frequent. They automatically associate it with “bad” instead of rationally thinking that the thing itself is not bad, it was the previous and historical context of it. People, in general, have a hard time removing stigmas.”

            You’ve actually described yourself there, because earlier you were banging on about how sexualizing women for men is bad.

            Sexualizing women isn’t bad because it’s a natural thing men do, it’s what makes families, children, the next generation, etc

            As for “damaging”, that’s just an excuse for bitter and spiteful fat ugly women to censor sexy women

            [sexual dimorphism] “When did I ever say that?”

            You didn’t say it, but because you tried to say that your so-called “oppression” is a historical thing, I just wanted to make it clear that it isn’t a social construct which means it wasn’t men who made women have long hair, wear make-up, skirts, dresses, lingerine, high heels, etc.

            “Nope, this comes from my experience with multiple male acquaintances, family members, and of course, the millions of people on the internet. Multiple male friends have expressed to me that they are often not given compliments on their physical appearance. Not by men, not by women. They have expressed wishing they could get more of them. Thus, some of them have a hard time understanding why women don’t like certain types of “compliments”, because they wish they could get ANY type of compliment.”

            Compliments does not mean actual dates and relationships, compliments is just generally an act of politeness.

            Men WILL be judged on their physical appearance by a woman when she wants an actual date/relationship.

            Women swiping away on Tinder of images of men before seeing their actual profile should tell you that.

            And you will do it too when you go looking for a boyfriend as well (assuming you haven’t got one already).

            “Not a party-goer. Also a college student, so everyone’s poor.”

            So you will have no problems with fat ugly guys asking you out when you do have parties

            [“I suggest you expand your horizons.”] I could suggest you do the same.

            I already do, that’s why I defend free speech, defend artists, advocate for ethical journalism, against censorship and against Political Correctness

            “However, for whatever reason, you have been so hurt by people you assume I am like that”

            I’m not hurt at all, I’m just tired of people like you ruining entertainment media because your feelings got hurt over some fictional cleavage

            And you probably are like those same people, because all you’ve been doing is spew hypocrisy and double standards. The only difference is that you’re just a polite version

            “that you cannot hold a conversation with me without resorting to insults and finger-pointing.”

            No insults from me. If you mean stuff like “spack”, well I mostly always use that word when speaking to people I know on social media. The “insults” and “swearing” is probably the way I speak. If you found that offensive, then what can I say

            “I wasn’t trying to create one to begin with. I just wanted discussion. However, I can’t have a conversation with someone who can’t be respectful.”

            Given the long posts in the replies I have given to you, that should be evidence of my respect

            Not everything has to be super-duper polite to be considered “respectful”

            “It’s amazing how I’m a self-hating woman to SJWs and an SJW to you guys.”

            I don’t really believe that for one second. All the stuff you wrote is exactly what comes from the mouths of SJWs and feminists, I reckon they’re praising you.

            The only thing which I think could make them hate you is that you give time to people like us instead of screaming “SEXISM” and “MISOGYNY” over and over again

            “You guys don’t see that you both are exactly the same”

            Wrong.

            We advocate for ethical journalism, freedom of expression/creativity, free speech and anti-censorship.

            We use facts, reason, logic and the truth.

            SJWs/feminists advocates for corrupt journalism, restriction of expression/creativity, controlled speech and censorship.

            SJWs attacks by using lies, slander, feelings and false victim-hood.

            GamerGate is trying is defend itself.

            SJWs are the invaders.

            That’s the difference. So no, we’re not the same.

            “Despite all of this, I wish you the best.”

            Likewise.

            And again, I think the solution to this is to have an alternative SJW Mode in video games where the “negative” stuff (which is basically female skin to you) censored. The full mode would of course, have all the good stuff for us terrible male gamers.

          • Lis

            I don’t really believe that for one second. All the stuff you wrote is exactly what comes from the mouths of SJWs and feminists, I reckon they’re praising you

            It’s because my only goal is get the other side to see that everyone is human. When I try to talk to SJWs, I try to advocate as to why anti-SJWs or MRAs feel slighted. Such as the double-standards men have on them that people refuse to talk about, child custody (as you mentioned before), and the infantilization of women (people excusing their behavior while holding men accountable). However, when I do that, I am automatically labeled as the enemy.

            I came here because through Robin’s responses and his article following up the censoring of his original article, he seemed like a really rational guy. I’ve given up trying to speak to belligerent SJWs because they have made it clear that they just want to be angry. I thought I would receive a different response here, but I did not. As usual, people automatically assume I am on the “enemy side” instead of realizing I just want everyone to be able to SEE. We are all humans, we all want the same basic things. Instead of focusing on the extremists and the bad qualities, focus on the rational people and reasonable points. This whole Men vs. Women shit so so fucking stupid, we both need each other.

            Edit: Also, I’ll make it clear one last time, I don’t want Cindy censored. I don’t want her covered up. I didn’t want that Tracer pose to be taken down. Doing that doesn’t solve anything (not to mention, that as I said before, I am also attracted to women and like seeing sexy women). I don’t agree with people trying to get rid of sexy women, because being attracted to sexyness is a natural thing and men should not be demonized for it. I was just trying to shed light onto WHY people are so angry and irrational. From understanding the other side comes resolution. Fighting solves nothing (except for in dire cases like national liberation and whatnot :P)

    • I always try my very best to improve my writing and everything else that I do. However, it´s pretty much impossible to please “some” people…Furthermore, I think that GamesGoodMeGood hit the nail on the head with his comment on the matter:
      http://thegg.net/opinion-editorial/final-fantasy-xv-the-whine-about-cindy-aurums-boobs-and-looks/#comment-3047098787

      • Lis

        I didn’t read it. But I would be very open to hearing how you feel about my comment. Once again, I didn’t mean to come off as judgmental or rude and I’m sorry if I did.

  • Deimos001

    The problem with this discussion is that there is no male/female equivalency.
    Simply put, men can’t be sexualised the way women can be.

    Hot muscly dude = male power fantasy
    Sexy fit girl = objectification

    Or at least, that’s the narrative that is being put forth.

    There is something to be said for assertive men = a male power fantasy, but assertiveness is a trait which is attractive in men (i.e. dominant behaviour is sexualised in men).
    Assertive men are sexy, but assertiveness means men can’t be sexualised victims, because they have power which is needed to make them sexy. Even if women displayed the same assertiveness, it is not needed to make them attractive if they are already physically attractive, which makes them sexualised victims by default, because society values women’s appearance more than men’s.

    TL;DR, basically the entire argument is dumb and you should probably not think too deeply about it and just enjoy the game.

    • “Hot muscly dude = male power fantasy
      Sexy fit girl = objectification”

      That´s the lockup on the whole topic really…Because that´s what I hear every time when this matter pops up. Yeah, but males can´t be “sexualized”, and males can´t be “sex objects”. Well, that´s at least what MSM and people like Anita Sarkeesian claims. Dude…Most females want to be sexy by default. It’s their human nature.

      “because society values women’s appearance more than men’s”
      – That´s true, that could also be said about our mental health as well.

      “TL;DR, basically the entire argument is dumb and you should probably not think too deeply about it and just enjoy the game.”

      – That would be the best game plan, yes.

      • Deimos001

        It’s just that the entire argument is disingeneous, which is what irks me.

        Men and women have different societal expectations placed upon them, but when men meet those expectations it automatically disqualifies them from having a voice in this argument, because the expectations for women inherently victimises them when men only benefit from the expectations which are forced upon them.

        It’s just completely out of touch with reality is what I was trying to say and perpetuating this argument only harms both sides.

        • “It’s just that the entire argument is disingeneous, which is what irks me.”

          Are you sure it’s disingenuous? Because you tried to defend that same argument in your first reply to Robin

          “Men and women have different societal expectations placed upon them, but when men meet those expectations it automatically disqualifies them from having a voice in this argument, because the expectations for women inherently victimises them when men only benefit from the expectations which are forced upon them.”

          Pardon me for being thick, but are you actually backing that argument or are you criticizing it? I can’t quite work out the tone despite the context of your post

          “It’s just completely out of touch with reality is what I was trying to say and perpetuating this argument only harms both sides.”

          I would disagree.

          It harms men, because when that argument is perpetuated, it only benefits women because it makes it that women can do no wrong and that men are evil. Which of course, leads to hypocrisy and double-standards from women

          • Deimos001

            I’m simply presenting the opinion as it is often told in my first post, hence: “or at least, that’s the narrative that is being put forth”.

            I know it’s rare for someone to put equal weight on both sides of the argument in these often heavily biased debates, but I’d like to think most feminist narratives can be discredited with simple logic and a reality check, which is why I left my first post open to interpretation. Also because I personally don’t feel the need to take sides.

            But if you’re asking for my honest opinion about assertive men in games who can’t be sexualised, it is this:

            I don’t believe men having agency in videogames disqualifies them from being sexualised, because that’s the way they are created. They have no say or will power of their own, they are meant to act in a certain way to let the player know that they are capable of completing the game, but ultimately it is up to the player to complete it, not the character. This means the character doesn’t have true agency, but the character is still presented this way because it is both socially and sexually attractive.

    • “Simply put, men can’t be sexualised the way women can be.”

      Yeah, women never go for handsome faces, 6-pack abs, chiselled pecs and muscular arms on men ever

      Because we all know girls/women like Justin Bieber for his music and like the males in Twilight for their stories

      “TL;DR, basically the entire argument is dumb”

      Yet you tried to stick up for that narrative and argue that men cannot be sexualized. Going by your logic, that makes you dumb then

      “and you should probably not think too deeply about it and just enjoy the game.”

      You should be telling the SJWs and feminists that, not us

      • “Yeah, women never go for handsome faces, 6-pack abs, chiselled pecs and muscular arms on men ever

        Because we all know girls/women like Justin Bieber for his music and like the males in Twilight for their stories”

        – That comment made my day xD

        • “That comment made my day xD”

          It’s not even funny any more Robin.

          Because that “male power fantasy” and “men cannot be sexualized” bullshit is constantly being peddled in the mainstream media to justify hypocrisy and double standards.

          People who do this, such as BuzzFeed, Salon, Mary Sue, etc. (just a bunch of man-haters) are the reason why Donald Trump got elected.

  • Derceto

    Wth is an Imzy, and who gives a crap what they think?

  • Commenter13

    Man this echo chamber is sad. It’s funny how you guys start sounding reasonable and always devolve to the same ignorant place. So much fake logic parading as actual logic.

    “Girls with big boobs exist, therefore no one can have a problem with the way females are portrayed in video games.”

    Literally your argument. Fundamentally flawed.

    “It’s always been like this, therefore why change it?”

    Literally your argument. Hopefully I don’t have to explain why that is fundamentally flawed.

    “Some of the men in the game show skin too therefore it’s fine for one of the only female characters in the game to dress like a literal stripper.”

    My favorite part is when you said she works in the desert so that’s why she’s wearing a bikini. Ever seen people who live in the desert? You know what they don’t wear? Bikinis. It’s called sunburn.

    Just stop.

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